The answer to the problem?

I had a frustrating but enlightening conversation on Saturday afternoon. I met this Kappa last week, and we had 1 of those “getting to know you” convos. Anyway, somehow we got on the topic of Black relationships and Educated Black Women (EBW).

Basically, his argument was that EBW’s arent getting married or cant find men because they are too cocky and arrogant. He says that EBW’s have made it a point to show everyone what they have and how independant they are, and things wont get better until EBW’s become more humble.

I must admit, I got very defensive during this conversation. I think its a natural reaction anytime that a grooup or subset that you belong to is criticized. I’m in the EBW club, and I feel like a lot of times we as a group get a bad rap and unfairly targeted.

Yes, there are a lot of dumbass chicks running talking about how they dont need men. Yes, there are a ton of dumbass chicks rubbing everybody’s nose in the fact that they got 8 degrees and make 6 figures. But why assume that we ALL are the same way?

What bothers me most is how so many Black men will constantly complain about how they dont want to be penalized for the behavior of the previous dude…yet they treat all EBW’s as if we are man-hating bitches who want to castrate men and spend all our time in the boardroom? Assuming that we’re all the same and thus a group to avoid at all costs is frustrating and hurtful.

I remember when I jokingly threaatened to quit Black men after a series of bad dates. Every Black man I know came out the woodwork to protest that I was unfairly penalizing the entire group for the behavior of a few…yet that is exactly what many of them is doing to EBW’s! Do they not see the hypocrisy?

I dont think the answer to the issues surrounding Black relationships among folks in my generation isnt as simple as “be more humble”. What are your thoughts?

  • Reecie

    good blog discussion, sorry I missed the dialogue. I agree with Lady Doss. I’m very independent also and while I’m not married yet, I already recognize things I’d have to adjust in my life…. I think Bibbs’ perspective is interesting too…..

  • Elliott

    My experience is that, educated or not, most black women don’t dig or appreciate educated black men in general.Or maybe it was just because I was too “oreo” for the black folks I grew up around. I don’t know, I’m always seeking enlightenment on that subject.In the mean time, I’m loving the hell out of my white girlfriend. And had she had any other skin color, I’d only be able to say the same.

  • Tunde

    i for one love ebw. i need someone who is not only street smart but book smart. there are women out there who have it going on, yet still know how to let a man be a man. men who group all ebw under the same category are insecure in themselves.

  • Luq

    Doesn’t the problem come from the labels themselves? Once you label someone as an EBW or EBM, aren’t you already implying something? That might be the problem to be honest. And you could blame it on history in that there weren’t considered to be many EB People and hence the whole talented tenth mentality came about, but now I just think the labels don’t do any good. So in my opinion, the problem isn’t inherent in any group but rather the person or people labelling the groups.This could be a very optimistic and possibly naive view, but at this point, it would be ideal if we just stepped outside the groupings. Then you can actually get to the heart of the problems which may be insecurity on both sides. If you’re secure then you’re fine being educated or challenged by someone thats educated and know you’ll find someone suitable/similar. That could be an easy way of dealing with it I guess but I think it’s real. Ultimately, I don’t see EBW as a group. I think that its a tenuous connection and just an easy way to group/exclude people. So I wouldn’t sweat it too much. BTW, If this is disconnected or disjointed, it’s because I was teaching while coming up with it.

  • TJ

    I think that is a little hypocritical, the don’t penalize us, but EBW’s are too cocky and arrogant. I’ve seen EBW’s who don’t raise the bar high enough when it comes to the men they choose to associate with, but that’s another post for another time 🙂 I’m an EBW and I’ve been married over a decade, so somebody out there can appreciate us.

  • Jubilance

    Elliot, I will agree that there are SOME Black women, educated or not, who would rather deal with a thug than an educated Black man. I’m not one of them, and I abhor the women who want a thug. Give me a nerd anyday, so we can talk about quantum mechanics while staring into each others eyes by candlelight, lol.But seriously, I think a lot of educated Black men were rejected early in their lives by Black women (who were really girls at that age, lets be honest) and they are still taking that hurt out on all Black women.

  • Jon Bibbs

    This is an interesting discussion. I’m a self-educated professional Black man. My perspective is very different. From most here. I think Luq is onto something however. I find that I’m stuck in the middle of the EBW / EBM discussion. I own a few businesses. I am well read. I’ve worked in government, community organizing and more. But, I only finished 3 years of college. There’s the rub! EBW tend to have a problem with the fact that I don’t have “a degree”. Because of this, I have to admit, my experiences with self-described EBW have left a bad taste in my mouth. On the other hand, dealing with women who aren’t professionals and don’t have some measure of education proves equally problematic. What can we talk about? Can we relate to one another? I look to my parents as an example of how a relationship should work. My mom has 4 doctorates, while my father never finished high school. He eventually got his G.E.D. He worked hard as a factory worker and supported our family while my mom was getting her education. As a race of Black people, I think our culture has pushed us to be a little too concerned with our educational status – particularly in our generation. In my neighborhood, which is considered to be an affluent “white” enclave, I routinely meet white couples who have very different backgrounds. They say it works for them. I think this may be because they focus on the fundamental elements of their relationships as PEOPLE: ie, 1) is there attraction? 2) is there connection? 3) is there ENOUGH common ground?…just my two cents. lol

  • Utter Hip

    i think today with freedom so close we struggle to make sense of it. Clearly the ole ways (it’s a man’s world) will not play out in this new age. Men do not see the opportunity being afford them by woman being able to support herself, family and him. By that i mean he can revise his role in life. No more me hunt you cook. What is being thrust upon us by woman is the question me hunt and cook, you???. We cling to the familiar for without it we would be naked, which sounds like the beginning in the garden of Eden.

  • Jubilance

    Thank you everyone for your comments and perspectives!

  • melette

    Interesting thoughts. Generalizations of any type are dangerous.

  • Lady Doss

    I’m sure I’ll get hate mail for this, but I can agree with his point of view. I guess I can see it both ways…I’ve watched a lot of EBWs walk around with that same “I don’t need a man” attitude and it’s somewhat sad. The truth is, no one NEEDS anybody in the grand scheme of things………. BUT it sure feels nice to FEEL needed by someone. EBW it’s great that you are able to hold your own but try making that man feels like you need him to do something (anything) for you. I had to learn that the hard way (I’m married, FYI). I was so used to doing everything on my own that I was in a sense emasculating my own husband. I’d change the lightbulbs and the oil in my car. I’d take out the trash and take my own car to be serviced. I had to learn that while I CAN do everything (anything – and I still can) it’s ok to “need” a man every once in a while.NOW on the other side of the coin… dude is ignorant for making a broad generalization like that. I’m proof he’s wrong on all sides… I’m an EBW who’s married and have been for 5 years. *shrug*

  • Sigh… Topics like these are irresistible because it is so simple to break down, but most BW don’t get it… And whether you like it or not feminism rears it ugly head again…

    But that is another post…

    To put it BLUNTLY, a majority of EBWs will never get married (if they don’t make drastic changes)

    ATTITUDINAL/DIVA COMPLEX
    SHORTAGE OF BLACK MEN

    Just because times has changed, what men & women are traditionally attracted to has NOT changed…

    When women have there own stuff & everything, a man is having a hard time trying to figure out how to fit you into his life, YOU don’t need anything but d*ck & emotional support… Not alot of quality want to get with that situation…

    And us EBM, are the only people that are in competition with THUGS… Whether you are attracted to them or not Jubi… The thug is celebrated in Black culture, he is the FALSE ALPHA MALE… So, rightfully so, EBM are frustrated that we take the straight & narrow road, and are not getting shine for it… Black boys have more incentive to be THUGS than men of education…

    Including EBW, Black women hardly ever praise BM, they are focused what he is NOT doing than the improvement that he is making… Men are not going to go where he is not wanted…

    You are absolutely right Jubi, us EBM early in life get rejected by BW, and shun BW later… Someone has to call out young BW for that…

    In conclusion… EBW have to continue to learn hw to be teo different people, if they seriously want men to consider them as wives & mothers… That is going to be tough for most…

    Men are hypocrites BTW… We have to stop the bitchassness